Sunday, July 04, 2004

Fere Libenter Homines Id Quod Volunt Credunt

Lets say there exists a hypothetical country.

A democracy since 1265.

It expands its borders to a new area, unsettled, and allows people to move there. There are no absentee ballots, and these areas, while self-managing, are not formally provinces of the mother country and so no voting rights are devoluted to them. As such neither are they subject to the taxes that are imposed within the old borders of the mother country, such as the head[count] tax.

People move there, cognizant of this bargain. Over 150 years, public costs increase. Maintaining the security of the colonies becomes expensive, and in fact places the mother country on the verge of bankruptcy. To recoup costs, while it still does not impose the basic head-tax that voting citizens pay, it taxes some forms of commerce.

Merchants oppose this, and noticing they owe enormous amounts of money to mother-country bankers, instigate a revolution over voting rights. They would get to cancel their debts without payment, an organized theft of money they had borrowed with the assurance of repayment.

The people who fought the revolution could by and large not vote even after it was over. Thanks to minimum-land-ownership rules, the bulk of the white male electorate was still disenfranchised. In fact, over the next 200 years, consistently larger proportions of the mother country would be enfranchised, vs the successor state, even controlling for proportions of ethnic minorities.

The successor state would claim to be the "most democratic" country in the world, and the "first modern democracy" after Greece. It would claim to be the land of "freedom" and "liberty" while violating civil liberties far more often, a land of "justice" with international watchdogs condemning it every year for failures in its criminal justice system.

Finally it would destabilize elected governments in the name of "democracy", bomb civilians in the name of "liberation", and condemn countries as being "evil" for attempting to acquire nuclear weapons while retaining an arsenal of them sufficiently large to annihilate the world ten times over.

Happy Fourth of July, and God Bless America.
London is looking better and better

49 Comments:

At 2:17 PM, [REDACTED] said...

Boston Tea Party - Grand Theft, Vandalism, and given that the taxes on the tea had been paid, some poor trader's livelihood was thrown overboard.

"The Shot Heard Around the World" - An ambush of security forces on their way to seize a weapons cache. If the contemporary Iraqi insurgents are "terrorists", so were colonists involved with this incident.

Without french involvement the colonists could not have won the war; in terms of trained troops, military aid, and the naval blockage that kept British reinforcements to a trickle and hampered troop movements, (to say nothing of attacks around the world against British possessions) the french were vital to the eventual victory.

It does remind me of the intervention of the Soviets and later China in Vietnam. The intervention of Iran and Syria right now in Iraq is another parallel.

"It is unlikely that George Washington would much like being compared with General Vo Nguyen Giap, who commanded the North Vietnamese army in the Vietnam war. But both shared the same recognition that a militarily-superior opponent with worldwide preoccupations can be beaten by an opponent who avoids outright defeat and remains in the field." (BBC)

Don't forget, we were also fighting to be able to slaughter Native Americans (Damn that Proclamation Line, eh?).

 
At 4:45 PM, [REDACTED] said...

There are very clearly two ways to look at every event in history. I agree that there's a lot of spin that's put on history and that with the passage of time accounts of the actual events slowly change until we're no longer positive what exactly happened. None the less I think that there's a problem with always taking the extreme negative view of history as well. Reading Rahul's comments one would be inclined to think that the United States has never done anything decent, should not exist, and consists of violent, brutish, evil human beings who only care about themselves. One, I'd ask why it is that some subset of the "greatest empire the world has ever known" was so uniquely different. I'd propose that Americans weren't all that different. Slavery was still fairly rampant in most of the world. As slow as voting rights did evolve in the US at least we had them (unlike the rest of the world). In the 200 years that followed the American Revolution hundreds more revolutions took place (and none of them cared too much about who had what rights to what land or what they ought to be reimbursed for their services and goods). When places were colonized in the first place there was often mass genocide. In fact, before the US was even formed the British slaughtered or relocated most of the indian tribes east of the Appalachians.

Americans were not at all unique. I think that the civility and kindness of the British empire is being highly overcharacterized here. For quite awhile British ships impressed hundreds of people at a time to serve against their wills (normally til death) to maintain the glory of the British navy and merchant fleet. Before they got out of the slave trade the British were doing an excellent job of enslaving whole villages and then putting them on ships where over 50% of the slaves would normally die in transit. In their heyday the British were pretty cocky about being the "Empire where the sun never set" and to make and maintain that empire hundreds of tribes and villages were slaughtered, impressed, or enslaved.

I'll be the first to admit that America has done some atrocious things. Name me a country that hasn't which has also been able to provide as well for as many of its people as the United States. Yeah... our system ain't perfect. In fact it needs a lot of fixing. I think we learn from our mistakes and we make the country better. Leaving it or simply leaving it alone doesn't change anything. If the US is evil and always has been then without change... it always will be. It seems the only reasonable thing to do is to stand up and try to make it better then.

 
At 4:52 PM, [REDACTED] said...

er...

Those british that killed off the Native Americans... that would be the proto-Americans.

The bulk of the slave trade occurred on colonist ships...

I'm not saying we are uniquely evil, but I'm saying we're not better than 50th percentile.

When we were founded there were other democracies already in place; we were hardly a new wave.

 
At 11:38 AM, [REDACTED] said...

Just because I enjoy arguing American history with you...

1. First off I'm not sure what you're categorizing as proto-Americans... I think that you'll concede that within 15 years of the American revolution would not really count as proto-American, however. Therefore I'll offer up the following.

The Rebellion of Pontiac. This was an aftermath of the war. Indians north of the Ohio, fearing eviction by the British, embittered by the arrogance and dishonesty of British traders, and disappointed by the ecomony of General Amherst in the matter of presents, were ready to revolt against British occupation of the posts recently held by the French. Pontiac, chief of the Ottawas, organized a rising of the Algonquins, Iroquis, and Indians on the lower Mississippi. In a simultaneous attack, all but three of the northwestern posts fell in May.

Proclamation of 1763, issued by George III. It temporarily closed to white settlement all lands west of the Appalachian Mountains and north of the streams flowing into the Atlantic Ocean. Fur trade in this Indian reserve was opened to licensed subjects. In 1764 Lord Hillsborough drew up a plan for the management of the Indians and the fur trade.

My issue with the proclamation of 1763 is that to create the nice indian settlements that are discussed... a lot of indians got displaced. You'll also note that the indians themselves were not big fans of the brits (in fact they'd on the whole liked the French much more).

2. The slave trade was most defeintly not mostly conducted on colonist ships. "It is estimated that during the 4 1/2 centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal was responsible for transporting over 4.5 million Africans (roughly 40% of the total). During the eighteenth century however, when the slave trade accounted for the transport of a staggering 6 million Africans, Britain was the worst transgressor - responsible for almost 2.5 million. (A fact often forgotten by those who regularly cite Britain's prime role in the abolition of the slave trade.)" http://africanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa080601a.htm

3. I'll grant that we're not a terrific country... oh wait... already did. My point is that if we're not uniquely evil but lurk amongst the lower bastions of humanity then why do you seem to be uniquely angry with the US in almost all of your assaults? My guess is that it's two fold: 1. You live here (can't do anything about that, move if you want) and 2. You think that we can and should do better (see my point on changing the system instead of fleeing it).

4. Democracies may have been already in place (though I'd ask you to give me a good example in the western world (aka what was perceived as the civilized world at that time by Europeans). My point was not that the US was the only democracy but instead that they were the only prominant democracy and that consequently they were the one is has always been pointed at as starting the decolonization trend which followed over the next 175 years.

 
At 3:31 PM, [REDACTED] said...

Kevin, before 1783, British included colonists, colonial ships etc. 1783, and the Treaty Of Paris ended that status. Thus all the Native American resentment, slave trading etc was also our responsibility. The people who encroached on tribal lands were the colonists, not the "Royal" presence in the form of governors and soldiers who generally stayed towards the coast until inland settlements were large enough to be worth defending.

-RS

 
At 4:17 PM, [REDACTED] said...

Okay... I get the line which you're trying to draw in the proverbial sand. My response would be that, though it was colonial encroachment, there were still a few things that the British government did that were not so great.

Note the wheeling and dealing and focing of indians out of all lands east of the Appalachians. Those deals were largely all made by the British government and enforced by the British army. Also keep in mind that the border forts which indians assaulted were British forts. In fact Great Britain was so concerned about Indian attacks that they established forts all up and down the appalachians to respond to indian attacks on settlers (yes... colonists... colonists that were okayed by Britain to move into what had previously been indian territory. The thing about the Treaty of Orleans was that it not only said no expansion beyond the Appalachians... it also said that expansion would be allowed and protected up to that point... which meant no indians.)

I think the larger issue here for me is becoming if you're going to claim that the shitty actions taken against the indians were colonial transgressions (even when you know that the colonies were about 1/3 loyalists, 1/3 rebels, and 1/3 didn't give a damn) when a government has a colony isn't it responsible for that colony? I admit it gives them some plausible deniability. But not that much. Moreover... if we give some forgiveness to Great Britain as a country for the actions of a few then shouldnt' we do the same for the US instead of characterizing by a few?

Last note. If you were attempting to infer that there were colonial slavetraders that are being counted in the British numbers I gave you... you are incorrect. Keep in mind a few things. 1. Due to mercantilism which was still way too popular the colonies pretty much didn't have ships. That was a lot of the problem that led to the revolution without the ability to trade with whom we wanted we had little need for big ships. More over if you're going to claim it's because they were importing something... that's also wrong. Ship manifests from Great Britain normally ran routes from Great Britain to Africa to the Carolinas (and occassionally farther north) and then back to Great Britain. If you want later I can give you all the books that have these numbers... I had to sit through about 8 project presentations on the slave trade in one of my communication of black america classes. 2. One of the reasons that Great Britain came out so ardently against the slave trade and started, so to say, policing the seas was because of their past transgressions. After declaring the slave trade illegal and immoral Great Britain decided to try and cleanse its hands, which involved a lot more washing than many other countries had. 3. There were slaves in Great Britain before they were in the US. They were in the slave trade before the colonists could have been.

 
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